So that was just funny to me. It's writer, Sam Kean again, and here's, he says, what you need to know about the midwife toad. And The other day someone was whistling and I was like, "Stop it", and it just hit me, I was like, "Oh God, I was him", it's never appeared until now. [ARCHIVAL CLIP, Jad Abumrad: Well lets lets read the book first. His big idea, as you might know, is that what a person does in their lifetime could be directly passed to their kids. ROBERT: Or how much humidity it preferred. All rights reserved. Well, lets not get too excited too fast because we have a story to tell and this tale leaves me a little queasy. PAT: If Barbara had gotten to Destiny's birth mom, Destiny, Kalia, this moment, none of it would exist. ], [ARCHIVAL CLIP, BARBARA HARRIS: I'm going to go out into the streets and offer addicted women money to use birth control. How do those cycles perpetuate? So, the thought is, when those little boys in verkalix were really, really hungry, their hunger started a chemical process that reached all the way down to the DNA inside the boy's sperm. I decided to have a press conference in my front yard to announce what I was doing. But I take it that we have more control over our destinies and our kids' destinies than we would've thought. Like Id be like, Weve got the keys, were gonna trash the house., Anyway, we think about that all the time and I was just talking to Lulu about that and she was just like, You know, theres a radiolab about this.. ROBERT: Inheritance, what you can move on to the next generation and what you can't. BARBARA HARRIS: And I was a waitress, I worked for IHOP for over 30 years. All of our writers are dedicated to their job and do their best to produce all types of academic papers of superior quality. SAM KEAN: It was this struggle for a few years. That kind of 30 years? But according to Kammerer, shortly after these toads got into the water, they did begin to evolve fast. Plus, you know, Lamarck didn't get all the biological details right. ROBERT: And youre saying that part of the DNA is covered up? Were just talking about toad, I thought. LULU: So far. Brain disease. More what kind of stuff? Yes, but creating an assumption that there is a class of people who don't deserve to procreate, who aren't worthy of procreating the human race, leads you down a path that we should have great concern about. Where we sought, they will find. That you can, somehow, by just being nice to them, reading them stories, or whatever, that you can somehow break them free of all that. As Barbara made the rounds on the daytime talk shows, the reaction was split right down the middle. So for Isaiah, being born was like just being cut off. The authoritative record of programming is the audio record. But a few of us make a habit of it. We inherited this beloved show that we first fell in love with as listeners. But what exactly Maybe you can explain this to me, Robert. It goes back to the 1800s. Right away, people accused her of targeting women at their weakest moment and enabling their drug abuse. As to diabetes, it was a four-fold risk. Inheritance | Radiolab Podcast 4,710 views Apr 8, 2022 Radiolab 43.8K subscribers From the Radiolab podcast: How your grandfather's diet can affect your lifespan, heart health and even. OLOV BYGREN: Hi, Olov Bygren. Full transcript: Radiolab co-host Jad Abumrad on Recode Media The new season of More Perfect, a spinoff show from Radiolab, began airing Oct. 2. Listen Jan 27, 2023 Birthstory A sperm, an egg, two wombs, four countries, and money. So he's got to live his life as a toad with all this baggage on him? ROBERT: Are you near the Arctic Circle or OLOV BYGREN: My home village was 10 miles North of polar circle. Take a look, explore and subscribe! I just have to read this to you. You mean, if you had a starving grandfather, you would be a healthier boy for the because you had a starving grandfather? In those books you can read everything about the citizens of verkalix, going back hundreds of years. Were there any consequences? [laughs[ Exactly. PAT: But she says she doesn't feel that way anymore. ROBERT: You wonder, where did that come from? DESTINY HARRIS: Kick it to him. JAD: Many years later, he and this woman. At the Vivarium, as the name suggests, they have live animals. Barbara started finding herself on panels with women who'd use drugs during their pregnancies. I mean like, with the licking, is it a teaching thing where, you know, the babies become good mothers because FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: They've seen it and they've repeated the experience. I had a little basketball for her. JAD: You know, inside these cells, in the center, coiled up in little spools, is the DNA. And that advantage, whatever it was, because it starts with one individual, and then it gets passed onto the kids, and then onto their kids, it would take a long, long, long time to spread through the whole population because, generally, that's how evolution works. I feel that they should all be sterilized. PAT: Barbara says they've reached out to her many times but they never heard back. Thats just the cold logic of Darwinian evolution. You're not leaving this hospital unless you have long-term birth control.". And since Kammerer kept the heat up, toads basically had to stay there, in this watery place that they had not evolved for. JAD: Well, if a mother a rat mother licking her baby can have such a profound effect, basically change the expression of the genes in the baby, well that's hopeful. Well, yep, that is so true. Its something I still think about all the time. JAD: So, in the end, where do you come down on this? Wow. PAT: The question that was stuck in my head right then was, "If you could choose between being born knowing that your life might end up like that and not like it is now, or not been born at all, what would you have done?". JAD: Who now works at Columbia University. He was known for going around and giving, what he called, his big show lectures, where he would wow whole audiences of people. Females seem to hate laying eggs in the water, but is that the end of the story? That's what I remember her saying. And that could have very easily have been one of us. Radiolab branded apparel and accessories are available at the Official Radiolab Online Store, aka the Swag Lab. JAD: In any case, what they saw at the end of all this counting wasWell, first of all, what they saw was this pattern that rat pups who got licked a lot as babies, when they grew up, they licked their babies a lot and the rat pups who didn't get licked a lot, when they grew up, they didn't lick their babies. Baby, be careful. If . [ARCHIVAL Clip, Daytime Talkshow: You know what they're going to go do with that money. PAT: A year later, she gets another call. CARL ZIMMER: You know, the fact is that taking care of animals, trying to keep them alive in a building is not an easy thing, especially if it's 1903. How old are your boys right now? I'm almost done. CARL ZIMMER: I know what I'll do, I'm going to set up a terrarium for them and I'm going to make it hot, really uncomfortably hot. OLOV BYGREN: Well, for cardiovascular disease JAD: Olov told us, take heart disease. Barbara tried to get a law passed requiring just that. Thanks to Frances Champagne and Michael Meany and Sam Kean, who writes about Paul Kammerer in his book, . I mean, were not gonna do that ourselves. It happens. Not only that. About 30 years ago-. What they decided to do first was to try to figure out which rat was which, which meant, interestingly, counting all the legs. We spay them. ROBERT: Because it's got the thing stuck to it? Yeah, it drifts into something like a shopping channel. This lady right here is still taking drugs and she could be pregnant again next month.]. ], [ARCHIVAL Clip, Daytime Talkshow: I'd like everybody to meet, please, Barbara Harris. PAT: That's a lot of people. So that's fun. Yeah. And so, you could only see one nuptial pad, and it all comes down to thisand all of that was just about to fall apart. When you explore what makes people tick or how the universe . I know! JAD: Not only that. I should add too. It is hosted by Lulu Miller and Latif Nasser. You got to help boost if you had a starving grandfather. PAT: Because she says as soon as she saw Destiny BARBARA HARRIS: Sat her on my lap, with her little dress on and her little curly hair. It happens. JAD: Don't you see, somehow the mother's tongue is getting all the way down in there and going [mumbles] and messing with the baby's DNA. Like have you ever had one of those moments where you suddenly are your dad and it catches you off guard? And so, they bring MICHAEL MEANEY: A lot of friends to the party. MICHAEL MEANEY: That activates maternal behavior. So moms licking activates serotonin, and it's released onto brain cells in the hippocampus. Who are you? [foreign language]. I got these genes from somewhere, but I kind of feel like she was a surrogate, like she carried me for my real mom. CARL ZIMMER: He actually named his daughter Lacerta, which is a genus of lizard. She filled out the forms went BARBARA HARRIS: Through all the training that we had to do and first aid, fingerprinted and had a background check done. It goes back to the 1800s. Well, there was an expert on reptiles named G. Kingsley Noble. In pictures, he has that, you know, that crazy Einstein fuzzy hair thing. That's really impressive. ROBERT: Kammerer, for one, was sent off to work as a sensor for the Austrian military. Yes, she has the same name as me. And I was a waitress, I worked for IHOP for over 30 years. But she says she doesn't feel that way anymore. I know I've been joking a lot in this interview, but I mean it with all that I am. PAT: Who gave Destiny her first checkup told Barbara BARBARA HARRIS: That she was delayed and she was always going to be delayed because of her prenatal neglect. Catch up with new episodes and hear classics from our archive. Lots of money. JAD: In those books you can read everything about the citizens of verkalix, going back hundreds of years. SAM KEAN: Basically, the midwife toad has a strange habit for toads. And Barbara and Destiny walked me out to my car. Visit our website. One-fourth? BARBARA HARRIS: They were seven and eight at the time. This is from 2002. BARBARA HARRIS: That's how we ended up with four of them. Well, I guess I was thinking we could just start at the beginning. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab today. My home village was 10 miles North of polar circle. You have to look at one cage, say, are they licking? Anyways, God bless you. Move on to the next cage, yes, no? We all know this, that there are cycles of abuse or whatever. To any drug-addicted woman who will agree to have no more babies. [laughs] Can you say, "Never, ever?" PAT: And as soon as she got there to pick him up, she could tell that something was wrong. He was miserable to look at. If you have a starving daddy, it turns out that the baby actually gets some sort of health benefit. In pictures, he has that, you know, that crazy Einstein fuzzy hair thing. ROBERT: Meaning that they had less incidence of heart disease? But, this hour were gonna fight this sort of sad sack feeling of inevitability and impotence. ROBERT: And rewrite the so-called rules of genetics. I didn't see them as people. You can do this. I mean, the idea that they could be constrained by their DNA, that maybe one of us gave them a bit of DNA thats gonna hold them back? And they had more. It's a small forest area, very beautiful. JAD: One parent stretching isnt going to do anything, see thats the bummer of Darwinian evolution. CARL ZIMMER: Just until they hatch and then 'til they go off. BARBARA HARRIS: I'm not saying that these women are dogs but they're not acting any more responsible than a dog in heat. JAD: Well, its offensive. You got to kick it back. CARL ZIMMER: He's 22, 23, and he already had this reputation for being amazing at keeping animals alive, that otherwise would just die. JAD: You can imagine these toads are like, "Dammit, fine. She and I snuck away from the children into her office. Anyhow, so you got this guy, Paul Kammerer, who's good with animals. JAD: That's what good rat mothers do, they lick their babies a lot. At the Vivarium, as the name suggests, they have live animals. Okay, and then I just had to accept it. And I just felt like it was in one of those moments that contains everything that's good about us as people. He'd fall asleep and just wake up screaming. JAD: How do those cycles perpetuate? Hi, this is Will, calling from Northumberland, England. According to Frances, it's not just sitting up there perfectly preserved, it's in the middle of the cell, it's crowded. SAM KEAN: Lamarck, Jean-Baptiste Lamarck. JAD: And these things are called, apparently, methyl groups. I mean, when you look at the records, you don't see huge spikes in mortality. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: I think that's where Lamarck's ideas can be woven in and make some sense. JAD: Because you begin with a mother's lick that ends up with a deep, deep change in the baby, not just the good, warm, fuzzy feeling, but a fundamental shift in who that baby is, and who that baby will be. DESTINY HARRIS: No, she was an oops kid. JAD: I got to say this is spooky. So heres the backstory. You are not God. JAD: If the genes are the bottom floor, then this layer on top is sometimes called the epigenome and that thing can change based on your experiences. About 30 years ago-. We are working to provide transcripts for as much of our programming as we can over time. ROBERT: He was a born nurturer and he adored animals. I'm graduating in December. Find ratings and reviews for the newest movie and TV shows. JAD: What you see in the records, is that one year PEJK MALINOVSKI: 100 liters. ROBERT: And those lucky ones, according to Darwin's theory, they would have had to have been born with some random mutation in their genes SAM KEAN: That gave them an advantage in this situation. LULU: A really good radiolab about this called Inheritance. Were told. We spay them. PAT: Destiny says one day, she and her mom were in the car, and her mom said DESTINY HARRIS: She said, "I don't know, you know, maybe they'll grow bigger? DESTINY HARRIS: You missed it. SAM KEAN: In a little community called verkalix. And there were from the beginning. The women who I've worked with, who've had a history of drug problems, aren't like the examples that she gives. Well, that's the good news, but unfortunately there is some bad news here. That, in a sort of ass backward way was Michael's question. Okay, you want to say bye? [laughs]. "To Whom It May Concern, I have been doing very good. JAD: Look, in the end, what do I know? How do these simple little traits get passed forward? Once their born, their genes are fixed and change does not happen in a generation or two. He stuffed himself silly; 9, 10, 11 years old, so he's a happy grandpa, you the grandson, you then would have. Something happens on the molecular level. RADIOLAB Podcast "Inheritance" Homework Assignment Name: Rohan Desai PSUID: 9 6241 8529 Listen to the first three stories of the "Inheritance" Radiolab Podcast (Control + click on link to access podcast. Because the Soviets, they believe in Karl Marx's idea that human beings were an improvable species, that if you can change the conditions around people, you change the people. He stuffed himself silly; 9, 10, 11 years old, so he's a happy grandpa, you the grandson, you then would have. SAM KEAN: You got to help boost if you had a starving grandfather. LULU: Oh actually, real thing, before we go, Latif. We'll just get one more.". CARL ZIMMER: He was born in 1880 in Vienna, Jewish family. by Nolan Moore. ROBERT: But, this hour were gonna fight this sort of sad sack feeling of inevitability and impotence. VERONICA ZIMMER: My name is Veronica Zimmer. PAT: This, of course, is Destiny. CARL ZIMMER: He was mighty skeptical. LATIF: Still, still standing. OLOV BYGREN: Looking for patterns in cardiovascular diseases, high blood pressure, and such. JAD: Now, according to Carl, your genes are still fixed. Move on to the next cage, yes, no? Maybe they'd try and jump back out, but it was still hot so they'd have to jump back in. MICHAEL MEANEY: What happens when moms lick their pups is that the pup beccomes aroused. Full disclosure, she's Robert's sister's partner. He thought it worked with humans, too. Radiolab is on a curiosity bender. But at that point just two of the six boys were living at home, Brian and Rodney. JAD: Yeah, like you can help them overcome you. Like. SAM KEAN: I guess the way I would look at it is that you can change your environment a lot more easily than you can change your genes. Just sing. ], [ARCHIVAL CLIP, BARBARA HARRIS: That's their choice, but the babies don't have a choice.]. DESTINY HARRIS: My situation turned out positive. All jokes aside. Well, this is it! ROBERT: Which turn out to be an interesting thing to look at it because the people in verkalix who were farming SAM KEAN: Trying to eke a living out of the soil. I think that's where Lamarck's ideas can be woven in and make some sense. Because the truth is, you have no idea how these kids are going to turn out. Kammerer puts on a suit and he walks off into the mountains Outside Vienna on a Rocky mountain trail. Well, yep, that is so true. MICHAEL MEANEY: So thats the reason, of course, that we work with rats because we can get inside the brain. JAD: Stretching got into the baby. LATIF: And as of 11:01 a.m. on Tuesday, when we're recording this, we have not broken the show. I do mean that. So almost instantaneously, the mother's tongue has reached into the baby's brain cells. Once a kid is born, their genetic fate is pretty much sealed. This was a really radical place at the time because you have to remember that people studying animals up till now, they were basically studying preserved specimens, and so on. JAD: Or very many of them right at all, but, you know, his basic idea seems to be true. ROBERT: [laughs] We now know that thats not the case. OLOV BYGREN: The results are quite obvious. 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