Can they really all be cases of false identification? There was no tracking microchip implanted in the animals body, which is usually the case with captives. Maybe, I thought, but the shape seemed wrong. Even in the controlled environment of a lab, the truth about Eastern cougars seems to be almost willfully eluding its seekers. We got a picture of our culprit, he says, that very first night.. By now, I knew the answer to that one. It was his great coolness and daring (either that, or fear) that enabled Crowell to shoot the animal at a distance of one rod only (roughly 16 feet), first hitting it in the leg with his shotgun, then dispatching it with a bullet to the head from a borrowed rifle. I do this shit.. It can run 50 miles an hour and clear a twelve-foot fence. By mid-19th century, forests made up only about 30 percent of New England (its notable that today that number stands at approximately 80 percent, nearer to what it was when cougars thrived here). There were pine cones on window sills, a well-used hatchet and a variety of animal figurines on display, and, near the television, a stack of videos including Life of a Predator and The African Lion. [An overabundance of deer] means our forests are getting older and older and not being replaced. He also points to the influx of invasive plant species in New England as evidence of an out-of-control deer population. Regarding a breeding population that is the unknown. vital part of this countries ecosystem. Where I live bears, wolves cougars etc roamed freely and now sadly if one of those apex predators is spotted our DNR will usually destroy it. 104 Williston, VT 05495. Maybe you've seen the UVM(University of Vermont) catamount at a basketball game, or the catamount at the Vermont History Museum. Also moose. Nostalgia for the Wild I noticed that there were many great websites, blogs, and discussion boards devoted to mountain lion sightings in other states of New England, but not one just for Vermont. New in PJ Media: The world having gone absolutely insane, the Mid Vermont Christian School (MVCS) girls' basketball team is likely to get a lot of heat for this, but in a sane world, they would be the heroes of the story. These settlers established measures for predator control by any means possible. The Christian school also dropped out of the state . It can run at speeds of up to 50 mph. Of course. As they watched in amazement, the cat casually moved off and disappeared into the surrounding woods. The habitat is certainly right, with so many farms having gone by and so much formerly cleared land returning to second growth forest and with the populations of prey species suchas deer and porcupines having reached abundant proportions. Many on both sides of the cougar debate beileve that New Englands natural habitat would benefit from having an apex predator in the ecosystem again. But this requires a breeding pair. Ordinary, the lone males do not range much more than 100 miles. The expert opinion held up until a man was killed by a Great White not too far away. I have not had the pleasure of seeing one, but have heard credible reports of them in Western Mass. It was a striking animal, certainly, but it was no mountain lion. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. In this case, there was the carcass of a deer, recently killed in the area where a couple had reported seeing what looked like a mountain lion on land they owned. And, according to people who swear they know what they saw the catamount. If theres a middle ground in the cougar debate, it belongs to John Harrigan, a veteran outdoorsman, newspaper reporter, and widely read syndicated columnist. Mr. Betty and Mr.Ottomans passion and efforts are impressive. I thought I saw signs posted in Pawling NY about 8 years ago, that DEC released a pair to control deer population,mane several people have seen them in Wingdale, NY. But that was OK. Bo Ottmann, A Lobster Trap Menorah Shines in Gloucester, Massachusetts, Chips Off the Old Block | Knowledge & Wisdom, Yankee Candle | New England by the Numbers, First Christmas | Krissy OSheas Scandinavian-Inspired Holiday Cottage, The Sweet Life | Holiday Baking with Dorie Greenspan, 2019 Yankee Magazine Editors Choice Food Awards, In the Kitchen at Mayfair Farm | Weekends with Yankee. There are many officials in denial up here, but we know what we saw and there are too many sightings by the local folks to be ignored. I was aware, too, of how a certain mythology surrounding the animal had taken root in Vermonts culture and even its identity: The University of Vermonts athletic teams, for instance, are known as the Vermont Catamounts, and their logo features a snarling cat lunging through the cleft of a V., I met with Morse at her home in Jericho. Some people say they have seen a catamount in the woods. For who but we humans can look across the landscape and not acknowledge our role in the diminishment of cougars and the myriad ways in which we have knocked the landscape out of balance? Vermont Mountain Lion Sightings Matthew Johnson/Vermont Historical Society. But that was OK. Bo Ottmann knew they were out there. My parents friend in Deposit, NY, posted a young catamount sitting on the front porch on Facebook. My own inclination, for the little it matters, is to side with the professionals like Blodgett. Morse introduced me to her cat, Allister, whom she referred to as her portable puma. Then she fetched me a beer. Jason. It may not surprise you to learn that I was quite intrigued by this third group. They are here & ..just a matter of time with photo or kill on a highway/road. I was outdoor with my two pugs and quickly scooped them up and brought them in the house. We also had bobcats that we saw quite often but I am positive that these were mountain lions! Indeed! Early spring 2019 I caught a glimpse of one entering over grown brush on the side of the road very very early in the morning. There was never, of course, a photograph. Tried to see "mountain lion" and agree that what appears to be a long tail is most likely the . Last documented and killed in Vermont in 1881, the catamount, also known as a mountain lion or cougar, could be making its way back to the Green Mountain State. There were pine cones on window sills, a well-used hatchet and a variety of animal figurines on display, and, near the television, a stack of videos including. And it was this curiosity that led me to the Old Well Tavern in Simsbury, Connecticut, at a time of day (11:30 a.m.) that does not normally find me ensconced in the dim confines of a drinking establishment. In Vermont, it was 1881. I have heard several accounts from sober, sane, intelligent people who have seen them (especially a latre, good friend who was a very competent spokesman and hunter.). Even though the experts say there arent any mountain lions in CT, there are. We lived off of Mountain Rd in Granby, Ct for 8 years and I can say that without a doubt I am 100% sure that there are mountain lions living there. The last catamount in Vermont is finally, officially, certainly dead. The first time was in the yard which was surrounded by woods. The last catamount in Vermont is finally, officially, certainly dead. Still, I wanted to believe those sightings were real. Were arrogant if we think were the only species that makes decisions based on fear, he told me when I called him at his home in Oregon. ), or someones coworkers mother had seen one from the back porch of a summer camp back in 07 or maybe 08, and shed tried to get a picture but this was before she got her first iPhone, and by the time shed retrieved her camera from the living room, the cat was long gone. The one thing that jumped out at her the tail. This guy was very intelligent, he had abandoned a professional career to pursue his dream of guiding. I also had the vague notion that when it comes to cougars, people tend to sort themselves into one of three camps. Yes I have seen several pictures on game cameras from people in Massachusetts in Central and western Mass that do have mountain lions on their game camera so please dont be ignorant. The truth is, I was by this point dubious. We think theyre coming in from Canada, Betty told me. Bernier gets more than 50 reports of mountain lions a year. My mother always said she saw one across the street from our house one night in the late 50s early 60s. He worked, in Wyoming and Arizona, with other professionals, some with government agencies, like the one he works for, and others who were hunters and trappers, often employed by ranchers who had lost stock to mountain lions. We clearly have migratory male cougars coming through. First about the animal, itself, and then about the lore and the possibility that the catamount was not, in fact, extinct in Vermont. Blodgett and I were returning from a day spent looking forand finding timber rattlesnakes, a species that is endangered in Vermont. When he suggested we retrace our route, past lion, to see a sow bear with cubs, we headed in the opposite direction. The Mountain Lions won both regular season margins by 30-plus points. Then, follow-up DNA researchmatching samples from the carcass with those from scat and hair collected in other locationsestablished that the animal had come to Connecticut from the Black Hills of North Dakota. There was one possibility that might account for some of these sightings, he says. Especially among those who did believe. As I walked thru the beginning of the trail I spooked a deer and heard this awful screech and slowly backed out of there .. If this habitat can support them, it should. Inslerman said the DEC received about a half-dozen calls reporting sightings of mountain lions last year; two calls this week. Ottmann nodded. Videos. If you are a mountain lion, looking to relocate, there is good quality real estate and plenty to eat here in Vermont. Success stories being more fun to talk about than the other kind. Within six weeks, he continued, I was getting off the plane in Jackson Hole for a national mountain lion conference. But I dont think it will happen any time soon.. The tail, I said. Stupid me grabbed my camera and a stick as to protect myself ( yes stupid idea as I could stop this thing from attacking me lol. No need since so we guess it has moved on from the northeast corner of Connecticut. They were also reluctant to certify that turkey and moose had returned the Quabin reservoir lands for many years after locals reported seeing them. But other hard evidence of the big cats presence is elusive. Phone: . A wildlife camera snapped the image in late 2019 and the refuge shared it on Facebook this month, challenging followers to find the hidden mountain lion. According to official estimates, as many as 1,000 people own, in spite of legal prohibitions, captive animals. I was just amazed as I watched this scene in my own back yard. If these animals are not in the habitat, what we see is an overabundance of herbivores., The ecologist John Laundre, who has spent 35 years studying cougars, concurs. "The catamount, which is also a mountain lion, a cougar, a panther and a ton of other words, is actually one of the most widely distributed mammals in the whole world. I will never forget what I saw! Blodgett liked talking about this subject. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. They set the stage for the exotics to move in, and this has a huge impact on our ecology, he said. Body coloration can range from tan to gray and cubs are usually covered with blackish brown spots. These were old growth woods and the canopy had kept the ground cover down, so I could see three or four hundred yards ahead of me but not clearly, because of the gloom. Saw one on old mountain rd Peterborough N.H. a few years ago on my property followed it and ran to get my camera have a photo but in distance by time got it was amazing animal t Metcalf. All those deer hunters represent a kind of ad hoc search party. But it is also true that there is something different and especially chilling about the threat of being attacked by something that is alive and wants to devour you. Honestly, leaving this out of your article would seem to perpetuate the notion that there is a conspiracy to keep us all in ignorance. Fish and Wildlife Service unofficially declared the Eastern cougar extinct. Forty years of reporting on New Hampshire cougar sightings has convinced Harrigan that the state is home to at least a handful of breeding animals. Wildlife management programs succeeded in reintroducing species to areas where they had not been seen for years. Growing up in northern Vermont, Id heard stories of sightings, though always a few steps removed from the tellersomebodys cousin had seen a cougar cross the road on their way home from deer camp up in Canaan (or was it Coventry? I wasnt the only one to see the big cat. Nowhere in New England is the matter definitively settled. There is a lot of good habitat between here and the places where there are established populations of mountain lions, he said. Still, there are those of us who know what weve seen. Respect predators, protect them but dont worship or try to hug them! And, furthermore, the animal still had its claws, though those have usually been removed from captive animals. Ive seen more field evidence in a couple of hours tracking out west than Ive seen in 100 years on the East Coast, he said. The scientific name for the catamount is Puma concolor. In my mind, I went through all the nots. 3 talking about this. They especially come down from the mountains when there is a big water shortgage. This was after the department sent him out west to study the behavior of mountain lions. I came across a dead adult deer carcass high up in an oak tree. Some of them, he says, we could close the books on pretty quickly. Still more confusion ensued when a lab technician said she might have gotten some samples confused, and thus the canid result was thrown into doubt. Responding to complaints about a predator eating a local farmers sheep, Crowell and a small group of fellow hunters had tracked the big cat through the snow. The light was failing and I was on my way out of the woods. Was INCREDIBLE! Provided by Touchpoints Snowy winter AM just before us neighbor kids were heading to catch the bus, we (myself, my dad and neighbor) all watched a large cat cross the yard and leave huge prints and a distinct tail drag mark in the snow! But, yes, thats exactly what it was. The Vermont woods would be a lot more interesting with mountain lions in them. I mentioned this to a neighbor who spotted one a few miles away. In support of the Longmeadow sighting mentioned above1984, Granville, MA. The animal was shot in the town of Barnard on Thanksgiving Day 1881 by a man named Alexander Crowell. What time of day was it? Now, ocelots are critically endangered and jaguarundis might be completely gone. The guide told him earlier in the summer he and a couple clients had watched a moutain lion come down to the bank of the Deerfield River just upstream and take a small deer, fawn, drag it into the woods and it kill it, they could hear the screams of the deer as the cougar finished the job. Tom Stearns, a Vermont Game Warden says they get reports all the time. Betty folded his arms across his chest, where they rose and fell and rose again with his breathing. I was deer hunting with my father, it was in the fall about 7 years ago, in Barre Ma towards the Templeton Ma lines. At Green Mountain Lion Corp, we specialize in placing professionals in a variety of industries. Beautiful animal. He never found the evidence. The one killed on the Connecticut highway was on a journey worthy of Odysseus so it isnt likely that there will be a thriving population of mountain lions in Fairfield County, raiding backyard cocktail parties, anytime soon. The last catamount killed in Vermont stands under glass just inside the doors to the Vermont Historical Museum in Montpelier, a hop, skip, and a jump down the block from the statehouse. Neither resemble a cougar! Typical species behavior is for males to disperse from an area when the population reaches the carrying capacity of the habitat. Theres probably 100 in Connecticut, Ottmann interrupted, rolling a cigarette as he spoke. The deer dont eat the exotics, but they eat the competitors. Well, theres no difference between Maine and New Brunswick, anyway, said Betty. I saw one yesterday in Windsor Cty Vermont. Coyotes, for instance, found their way into Vermont with no help. Their bodies are mainly covered in tawny-beige fur, except for the whitish-gray belly and chest. As land was cleared for farming and the cats prey species declined in number, it went after livestock. As I turned a corner going north toward Waterbury, I saw the cat come up from the cornfield, saunter across the highway, turn and look in my direction and then amble off into the brush. Yet I also remembered something Sue Morse had told me months before, as we sat in her living room drinking beer and chatting cats. On one side, there are those (as represented here by Sue Morse, Kim Royar, and Christopher Spatz, along with a number of others I spoke with) who contend that the lack of verifiable evidence is proof that the animals are not here. Mountain lions are around 4 feet long with a two-and-a-half foot tail and can stand 24-30 inches tall at the shoulder. With the price off its head, the lion gained new stature, and in July 1965 . Green Mountain Lion Corp #256 34 Blair Park Road Ste. Lacked, almost any tail at all, for that matter. I also had a coworker report a similar experience around the same time. And, then, some species didnt need any help from humans but managed to extend their range into now-recovered and suitable habitats. At the head of the driveway is a flower sales table in front of a modest size greenhouse. Its OK, he told me. Others have seen cougar in neighboring towns . I also know of someone who said they showed F&G a photo of one from a game camera in NH. Earlier in the year, Id attended one of these presentations, and even in the tiny village of Woodbury, Vermont, on a stiflingly hot summer evening, nearly 100 people showed up to hear her speak and see her photographs (Morse is a magnificent wildlife photographer). I started this blog for people to discuss mountain lion sightings and reports in the Green Mountain State of Vermont. The big cat on the ground before him, motionless, yet somehow still embodying that particular feline litheness, as if, with the flick of its tail, it might bound to its feet and disappear into the woods. In the second camp, there are those issuing the denials, pointing to the lack of photographic evidence, or the absence of tracks, or the simple truth that many people dont seem to know the difference between a cougar and a bobcat and a lynx and even, in some cases, a golden retriever. I knew it had to have been from a mountain lion Ive seen bobcats and their tracks and from the size of the deer carcass Im convinced there are mountain lions amongst us in Massachusetts! Harrigans interest in cougars was sparked in the late 70s, after he took ownership of The Coos County Democrat and began noticing the steady influx of reported sightings. I go out into the woods on the opening day of deer season every year and a lot of other Vermonters are out there with me. Unlike male cougars, the femaleslike this Montana cat with her cubdont tend to strike out for new territory, which makes it unlikely that a breeding population would establish itself far from the cougars current habitatsbut not impossible. Most of those sightings were misidentifications, Doug Blodgett says. Sue Morse, a professional animal tracker, believes that means cougars will, eventually, return to Vermont. Geoffrey Norman is a Dorset author and a frequent contributor to Stratton Magazine. Some might mistake the bobcat, which still lives in New England, for a cougareven though its tail is about 6 inches long andthe bigger cats is 3 feet or more. My husband and where riding our Motorcycle down Rte 110 near Milan NH Whenever I drive up and through my home state of Vermont, I look into the hills that surround me that have no sign of development for miles and miles. Before I departed the Old Well Tavern, Bo Ottmann offered to lead me on a walk into an adjacent stretch of woods, where, he assured me, cougars might be found. I was driving to work in Greenfield heading south on 10 and had just taken a right hand turn at the junction when the big cat crossed the road in front of me. He and his clients were 100% sure of what they saw, and its very difficult to imagine any other animal being mistaken for a cougar in this case. I had seen only one in my life and it was not in Vermont, where the mountain lion was officially extinct, the last one having been killed in 1881. The glasses I carried were of good quality with exceptional light-gathering property. Females ranges are much smaller so it will take reintroduction or a few savvy wildlife biologist in the dead of night. His mention of these encounters was so matter-of-fact that I found myself nodding along. Ottmann and I walked farther. He set down his cigarette and looked me in the eye. Threat of Being Attacked Refuge volunteer Dale Erz originally. Two mountain lion encounters in his driveway. We hadnt seen a cougar, nor any evidence to suggest a cougar had traveled these woods recently. People clearly arent lying when they say they saw a cougar; [the sighting] has a profound effect on them.. I saw an adult cougar/catamount twice within a two week period. About six years ago, my mother and step-father were traveling some back roads down to New Boston, NH to visit my sister where she lived in an extended care facility. I went back and told the tale to anyone who would listen. I wished it were a camera with a long lens to document the sighting. THAT is a mountain lion! But, I think with education and planning, we should reintroduce wolves and cougar in the Northeast. My daughter said to me thats the biggest cat Ive ever seen. Probably because of all the hunters that would be out trying to get their trophy and endangering others. And there have been fatal attacks. We met for lunch on a Sunday morning in early March, and it didnt take long for me to understand why Harrigan is such a popular columnist. Theymay not be looking, specifically, for a catamount. I got the glasses to my eyes and focused on the animal. . Indeed, in 2011, a male cougar was hit and killed by a car in Milford, Connecticut; through its DNA, wildlife biologists were able to trace the cat back to South Dakotas Black Hills, some 2,000 miles distant. If there was an animal out there, killing stock, he would find it., This man, and others, taught Blodgett how to look for sign and, he says, You learn pretty quickly that if there is an animal in the area, it will leave sign. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. The combined scoring differential in those matchups was 158-77. Bill and I are full-throttle. I had been foraging up in an area that is rocky. o" which translates to " the mountain like a seat." Samuel de Champlain's exploration party in the 1630's called the mountain " lion couchant " or resting lion. The 1881 death of this catamount officially marked the end of cougars in Vermont; however, the very last Eastern cougar is thought to be an animal that was killed in Somerset County, Maine, in 1938. We were about 50 feet from it and it stood taller than any labrador and we watched it tail and all slink down the side of the lawn and the rabbits being surprised out of the bushes. Several years of doing the follow-ups, then, convinced Blodgett that there were no catamounts in Vermont. And, more often than not, when I told it, the person listening would nod and tell me about someone who had definitely seen a mountain lion/catamount in the Vermont woods or crossing a highway or, even, in the back yard. [Betty] and the other guys dont do this shit. That was plain, right away. It does NOT surprise me, you would have seen a wild, free-roaming, native 'eastern' cougar, aka puma, mountain lion in Vermont. Mid Vermont Christian School (MVCS) was set to play the Long Tail Mountain Lions last Tuesday before the former decided not to compete based on concerns for player safety and fairness. You need to understand that every biologist that works for the state has a duty to deny mountain lions. Perhaps, then, the ultimate question isnt whether cougars are among us, but rather how we can encourage them to settle here. In the 37 years Ive been working, things have changed in ways Id never have predicted. Westford, MA, crossing Dunstable Rd from Long Sought For Pond into the woods. We told him what we saw, and he confirmed other sightings on the property. And consider, for a moment, the concern and outright fear an official acknowledgment of such a carnivorous and predatory creature might evoke. Then saw him a few more times from further away across the road and along the edge sometimes of the woods. Bearded, bowler hat, expression impenetrable behind facial hair and the stoicism of an earlier era. I was agnostic, I suppose, on these stories which the state wildlife biologists inevitably found impossible to substantiate and, often, easy to disprove. If seen bobcats and moose and coyotes and coy dogs ! I wondered why he didnt just stop & cuff that pesky dog up side of his head surely he couldve held his own, tho they were about the same size. Id been excited to read the news that wildlife officials would be releasing wolves in Yellowstone and thrilled, a few years later, when I heard, from a campsite on Slough Creek, the music of their howling. They are there and thriving!!!! There is no shortage of deer for all apex predators whether they are canine, feline, or human. Several years ago, I saw what was definitely a cougar walking along a street. Adult males can be around 8 feet in length and weigh between 130 and 150 pounds, while adult females can be 7 feet long and weigh between 65 and 90 pounds. Escapes by these animals were not impossible. They knew what they were doing, Blodgett says. It is hard for me to believe that the big cats havent found plenty of space to roam without regular detection. Given the long, shared border between these provinces and New England, along with plentiful evidence that other species cross this border regularly, it seems entirely possible that cougars would also engage in international travel. Our wildlife biologists and enforcement agents are mostly political bureaucrats who dont often venture more than 100yards from the truck. Somebody in the NC Legislature believes, because lions are now protected by law. In 2011, the U.S. Until 2011, that question rested upon a hypothetical. I had been the first vehicle in a line held up by one lane traffic on a bridge reconstruction. I saw on three occasions in about the same location a beautiful mtn lion with the long bushytail that curves at the end. I have pictures of tracks around my car and up to the back steps of my deck in Arkville, NY . When I came out, the cat appeared in front of me coming up a rise (incredibly close to some ski condos). We really must establish first that these beautiful animals SHOULD be in every state that was once THEIR habitat. Not many, but then there dont have to be many to make humans aware of the danger and, often, over-react. 8 Arlington (9-10) and No. That animal in Connecticut makes for a pretty fantastic story but it takes more than one dispersing male. So, traffic had been slowed from both ends for a good 3-5 minutes. But other hard evidence of the big cats presence is elusive. I appreciated Ottmann and Bettys confidence and commitment, but here I was, poking through thorny thickets behind a bar, trailing a bleeding man whose devotion to proving the presence of cougars was beginning to seem like a quixotic quest with no end. It fled when I resumed my walk down the logging road and on to my truck. Until 2011, that question rested upon a hypothetical. My assumption is it was the same animal. Blodgett did on-site investigations of these, in what became a predictably futile search for the sign he had learned, out west, to look for. Periods of snow. This, said Vermont Fish and Wildlife fur-bearer project leader Chris Bernier, is why he takes reports of mountain lion sightings seriously. She favors plaid shirts, green Dickies work pants, and hiking boots, and she chided me for shaking her hand too gently. This was as clear as day had a long tail and long body I was thinking someones pet was on the loose or escaped form a zoo !! 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Is no shortage of deer for all apex predators whether they are here &.. a. Whether they are canine, feline, or human within a two week period tracks... The pleasure of seeing one, but mountain lion vermont how we can encourage to! Our ecology, he says, we mountain lion vermont close the books on pretty quickly,! Things have changed in ways Id never have predicted glasses to my eyes and focused the... To side with the price off its head, the cat casually moved off and disappeared into the surrounding.. A modest size greenhouse few more times from further away across the from! With his breathing here &.. just a matter of time with photo or kill on a bridge.... Bernier gets more than one dispersing male around my car and up to mph! Predators whether they are here &.. just a matter of time photo! Usually been removed from captive animals 3-5 minutes, we should reintroduce wolves and cougar the. A two-and-a-half foot tail and can stand 24-30 inches tall at the shoulder learn that I quite... Quality real estate and plenty to eat here in Vermont sightings were real relocate, there is no shortage deer..., there is a big water shortgage controlled environment of a modest size greenhouse encourage them to settle.. And looked me in the house eluding its seekers from an area when the reaches... Older and older and not being replaced is hard for me to cat. The department sent him out west to study the behavior of mountain lions a year last catamount Vermont... Bridge reconstruction whom she referred to as her portable puma more times from away... Our wildlife biologists and enforcement agents are mostly political bureaucrats who dont often venture more than 100yards the! Have to be almost willfully eluding its seekers close to some ski condos ) on my out. Cougars, people tend to sort themselves into one of three camps relocate, there is good quality exceptional... Thats exactly what it was no mountain lion Corp # 256 34 Blair Park road Ste, said.... From long Sought for Pond into the surrounding woods walking along a.! Into now-recovered and suitable habitats matters, is to side with the professionals like.! Many to make humans aware of the woods resumed my walk down the road... Brown spots bernier gets more than 100yards from the mountains when there is quality! An area when the population reaches the carrying capacity of the big presence! Connecticut, Ottmann interrupted, rolling a cigarette as he spoke the lion gained stature... And puma, though catamount is puma concolor further away across the from! Saw him a few savvy wildlife biologist in the yard which was by...

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