The forward wing (not to be called a canard, as it has no moving flight controls other than forward flaps) is positioned on the underside of a gracefully sweeping nose and is home to two pitot tubes underneath and, unusually in Western types, has a significant anhedral. As a result, the engine management chores on the P.180 are more complicated than those in todays fadec-equipped light jets. Ill let Peter Garrison work out both the semantics and aerodynamics of the question (if those two disciplines would differ on the subject). Don, sorry about your situation and lack of communication. The instrument is a dual-purpose gauge showing both torque and interstage turbine temperature (ITT), Tq shown by a green arrow and ITT by a line. Like the wing, the gear is set very far back, which explains why the pull to rotate is so pronounced in the P.180. In the Flint incident, LISTEN TO THE ATC tapes! My big concern is that this is just a smoke screen for bigger financial issues and that my share is in jeopardy. The cabin provides a comfortable and quiet ride for passengers. Viva VNR! On approach, however, the view is excellent. The airplane arrived at the destination airport about 10 minutes behind schedule. In flight, the Avanti handles much like its competition, but the jet-like takeoff and landing speeds, lack of FADEC, narrow gear track, twitchy electric steering, and grabby carbon brakes combine to make the airplane more of a handful than your run-of-the-mill King Air or Cessna Conquest. I could see why 380 is a preferred altitude. The plan appeared to be working well until Genoa ATC advised of a 45-minute hold at GIKUT for an instrument approach. At 10:30 I was contacted and told that my flight had been cancelled, and that they would be looking at both charter and commercial flights at their expense. His record is pristine and out of Vegas, PS Albany has treated him so bad. This, along with the airplanes great cabin and operating economies, has made the Avanti II the airplane that has helped create the remarkable success of charter and fractional operator Avantair, which operates 57 Avantis. https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2012-10-23/avantair-grounds-entire-fleet-safety-checks, It was ground the fleet for inspection or get shutdown my the FAA. Findings as to risk: Then, Cessna built a tougher Citation which you see today - more ready for fractional use. Avantairs demise, parts scarcity, and maintenance headaches combine to make P180 ownership a challenge. It's because they MUST do it. The Nov. 16, 2011 engine failure and emergency landing at Flint, MI and veering off the runway and flipping on its back (all 4 occupants suffered minor injuries) shows pilot poor skills for sure and serious concern about engine maintenance. Pete Bedell is a pilot for a major airline and co-owner of a Cessna 172M and Beechcraft Baron D55. Only records that are readily I started looking at commercial flights, figuring SWA flies there and it would be inexpensive anyway. Being a turboprop, however, it uses a fraction of the fuel jets would use. @piaggiodriver, it's ok to be proud of working at a company but avantair treats its employees horribly. | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Content Policy, HAI Announces 2023 Salute to Excellence Award Winners, Software House Flight Vector Sees Opportunity in the Middle East, UAC To Exit Superjet 100, Investors Eye UAE Production Plant, PC-12 Crash Is Third Guardian Flight Fatal Accident, KinectAir Plans To Add Electra eSTOLs to Charter Network, WAI Concludes Record Conference in Long Beach, A modest proposal to boost general aviation, FAA Should Use Its Nuclear Option To Save Americas Airports, Analyzing the GAMA 1Q10 aircraft delivery numbers, Mid-Year Aerospace & Air Transport Report. Piaggio can do it, too. Taxiing feels conventional, though its accomplished using an electrically actuated, hydraulically powered nosewheel steering system. WebYou may request that records be sent to you (or your designee) by email, fax, or U.S. mail. In attempting to understand the Piaggio P.180 Avanti II, you need to begin by forgetting everything you thought you knew about turboprop-powered airplanes. Think of the Avanti II as a jet with props and youll be close to the mark, though in many respects, its not an easy mental shift to make. For an airplane that looks so unusual from the outside, the experience of flying the Avanti II is in most ways very conventional. Its a great formula. I stayed on the flight director as we climbed, quickly getting into IMC and getting rapid-fire climb-and-maintain clearances along the way. While canard configurations like the Beechcraft Starship were gaining a lot of attention back then, the exotic Avanti begged to be even more different with its three-lifting-surface arrangement versus the canards tail-forward setup. Cash is cash, and paying another charter company would sink cash. Yes, the Captain, a mere mortal and an infallible being, DID miss the elevator on his post flight inspection. Of course, with higher operating weights you wont be able to carry as much fuel or, hence, get as much range, though the truth is that most flights in a 400-knot airplane are less than 1,000 nm anyway, and with a thousand-mile range as the target, you can liberally load the P.180. If anyone (such as an employee) has anything to share it would be appreciated. Could it happen to anyone else? A traffic target can be out of view in certain positions, at around 2 oclock for the left-seater or 11 oclock for the right-seater. At that level we were seeing 380 knots or Mach 0.664 on 600 pounds of jet-A per hour, not per side but total. I am a fractional owner and the first I heard about this grounding was at 11pm last night when they sent me an email saying my flight for this morning was cancelled. I'm a fractional owner and the first I heard about this fleet grounding was 11pm last night when I got an email from owner services saying my flights for this morning at 9am and return tomorrow were cancelled. You obviously have drank the company kool aid for so long you are unaware of it or just don't care about your fellow employees who have been sacked as a result. Sounds like they are on life support and being read their last rights. A CEO and board that has taekn this company into a downward spiralouot of business in 3 monthsnice stock price!! As the flaps travel, there is a nose up pitch that is easily counteracted with slight forward pressure on the column and trim. Pilot Report: Piaggio Avanti Evo - Aviation International Piaggio P.180 Avanti: Owner/operator: Avantair Inc: Registration: N146SL: MSN: Avantair and the FAA may call it voluntary, but it's all semantics. The problem is that management is a little delusional about the extent of the problem here. Grant has been flying the Avanti for years with thousands of hours of experience in the airplane, much of it under typical charterlike conditions. Many products featured on this site were editorially chosen. I had to look at the placard on the panel to decide that it is the latter, but once I worked this out, the trim was powerful and required only a one-second application to remove all the rudder force. You can't fly airplanes with missing elevators and expect the FAA to be happy. This press release was issued by Avantair late last night: AVANTAIR UPDATE ON VOLUNTARY STAND-DOWN OF OPERATIONS. The Piaggio Avanti EVO is the third generation model of Piaggios flagship model. To remain inside the military area, Villi encouraged me to roll on 45 degrees of bank. They have a history of lying. To remain within our area of operation I was required to roll on 60 degrees of bank, which again demonstrated the airplanes maneuverability. Vref lists the value of a 1990 P180 at $846,600 ranging up to $6.1 million for a 2019 Avanti Evo. Avanti II appeared for the 2006 model year with higher thermodynamically rated engines. Piaggio P180-Avanti-II Price and Buyer Guides View all AvBuyer's Turboprops Articles . There is a lot owners don't know and it is shocking. The anhedral of the forward wing ensures there is no aerodynamic interference with the engine intakes and assists in stall handling. The price of the latest Piaggio P180 Avanti EVO is US $ 7.7 Million. The complexity of the airplane also translates to high maintenance costs as well. Anyone have any or both of these checkists? Perhaps the most unusual part of the Avanti II experience for the pilot is the view outside. Anyone interested in the truth can re-read Piaggio drivers 4 part post. The Avanti II's efficiencies can reduce operating costs by as much as 40 percent, according to Bingham. WebPostaccident examination revealed both nose gear tires were deflated, and the right main tire had low air pressure. Yes, the Captain was terminated and we lost a good pilot. The Avanti II, as I said, handles nicely, and this comes in handy in the pattern, where hand-flying is far easier than it is with most jets. Willing to purchase them from you. Avantair and the Avanti have tremendous potential, if we make it. Then there are the issues with inflight engine shutdowns that happen way early of the engine manufacture time frames. Ive removed Kyles email address above since this is not a pilot placement service, and Ive also deleted a charter companys post trolling for business from Avantair customers. They are completely disconnected from operations and maintenance and some in the operation would argue 'reality' should be added to that list. Several years ago I shared a King Air 200 with another company which was great until the partner got into financial trouble and couldn't pay their half. Thats slightly less than 100 gallons per hour, a figure light jets simply cant touch. Management is out for their gain and don't care for the customers, after all it is the customers who legally own the airplanes, not the company. My friend, the Captain, requested the FO remain with the passengers, who continued their verbal tirade as the Captain DID complete a postflight, although abbreviated under duress. Villi switched on the V-bar flight directors on the PFD of the Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 flight instruments, selected flight level change (FLC), and synchronized the heading with a button push on the FGP on the glareshield. pilots. While the rate of climb is great, one thing the Avanti II doesnt do is climb or descend at very high indicated airspeeds, the former a condition of available thrust. Villi started the starboard Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-66B as I settled in and set up my voice recording device and GoPro camera connected via a splitter cable to my headset. WebSECTION A: GENERAL, P.180 Avanti Type Design A.I. With a top speed of 400 knots (Avanti II/Evo), these airplanes cruise as much as 100 knots faster than traditional turboprops. The hours they slave him out for is shameful Yes, it does have three lifting surfaces, a T-tail and two pusher propellers but its how they are put together that is the important thing. Deviating from ICAO-compliant English, the controller told us, Piste libre before we lined up and discussed the departure. One lesson I did learn is to do due diligence on a prospective partner so you don't get stuck paying all the bills. The front office of the Avanti Evo is the Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21. One smart thing I did do was I bought my share as a resale thru a vendor and paid a whole lot less then I would have if I bought straight from Avantair. They offered to find me a charter at MY expense but the quote was outrageously expensive. The flare required is very small, just enough to cushion the touchdown, so the nose drops very quickly to the runway. We were light and it was slightly colder than standard, both of which help boost true airspeed numbers by at least a few knots. While things have been dreary throughout the aviation industry for the past 5 years, Avantair was the only fractional airline that did not furlough or terminate pilots due to staffing reductions. This action is voluntary and involves the temporary stand-down of [our] aircraft, Avantair said in a statement. The Avanti is has been around since 1990, providing the luxury of a jet with the versatility of a turbo prop. Ask about it and was told they didn't want to buy replacement parts. Takeoff over 50-ft obstacle (sea level) / 3,262 ft Despite the fact that it took me a while to get a feel for the trim button theres a little activate button in the center of the trim hat the hand-flying was nothing short of delightful. In simpler terms, that means the engines maintain their 850 shaft horsepower to a higher altitude thereby increasing true airspeed of the airplane through the thinner air. Gulfstream Aerospace Celebrates 25 G700 Speed Records, A New Pilot Gets an Accelerated Course in Flying, Your Ideal Aircraft Might Be the One That's Easy To Fly, FAA Documentation Concerns Halt Boeing 787 Deliveries, Piper Reports 15 Percent Rise in Aircraft Deliveries, Cessna Citation Special Olympics Airlift Set to Take Off, Photos: Arizona Storm Destroys Dozens of Airplanes. At 10:21:49, there was 1000 feet of vertical separation and 0.9 nautical miles of lateral separation between the two aircraft. This is another advantage of a turboprop. A flight credit has very little value unless and until we fly again. The Aviation Safety Network is an exclusive service provided by: 27 occurrences in the ASN safety database, Battle Mountain-Lander County Airport, NV (BAM/KBAM), Piedmont Triad International Airport (KGSO), Greensboro, NC, St. Petersburg-Clearwater International Airport (KPIE), Florida, Flint-Bishop International Airport, KFNT/FNT, MI, Dickinson-Theodore Roosevelt Reg'l Airport (KDIK), Dickson, ND, Abraham Lincoln Capital Airport (KSPI), Springfield, IL, Essex County Airport (KCDW), Caldwell, NJ, Mineta-San Jose Int'l Airport (KSJC), San Jose, California, Genoa Cristoforo Colombo Airport (GOA/LIMJ), Denton Enterprise Airport - KDTO, Denton, TX, Rocky Mountain Metropolitan Airport (BJC/KBJC), Jefferson County, CO, Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport, MD (BWI/, Aircraft Guaranty Corp Trustee (Operated by Aerovanti, Marathon-Florida Keys Airport, FL (MTH/KMTH), 28 km off Puerto Limn Airport (LIO/MRLM). Even though the decidedly jet-looking main wheels sit at what looks to be a knock-kneed angle, theres no effect on handling or for that matter on tire wear. (Please expect us to be bashed by current Avantiar employees. http://www.avantair.com/filings.html. Hah, you think the owners don't care about safety? Viewing this report requires Adobe Reader be installed on your device. Just ask the Netjets pilots about how many Citations were broken in the late '90's and early 2000's. So to say that all is negative is wildly incorrect. Now I find out this has been an issue for several days but they have not sent out any communications to the owners mentioning this issue, nor is it mentioned on their website. Technology and Comfort They are a public company and having your fleet grounded is a material issue yet they are not disclosing this issue as far as I can tell. I am under a recent lease agreement. I kept on the controls through a number of heading changes much up into the midteens before switching on the autopilot. With all of these maitenence issues and issues regarding fudging pilot hours so they would be legal is scary. Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 avionics suite also debuted in the Avanti II. WebAs the factory-authorized training provider for Piaggio Aeros P.180 Avanti, Avanti II and Avanti EVO models, FlightSafety has created in-depth, type-specific programs to ensure that pilots and maintenance technicians of Piaggio Aero aircraft are equipped with the latest in safety training. I love the Piaggio and up until last week my five years worth of experience was great. However, the pilot did not report any pre-accident mechanical malfunction or anomaly with the airplane that may have precluded normal operation. Bill, I appreciate the info and your honest evaluation. No nose was visible ahead, but down and to the right from my seat I could see the tip of the forward wing and the shapely winglet was at my four oclock. The new landing gear, brakes, and steering of the Evo are manufactured by Magnaghi Aeronautica of Naples, Italy, and they blend smoothly and positively. P180 Avanti Pitot and Static System. At FL 250 it was still better than 2,000 fpm at 170 knots indicated. Some operators use a Garmin 430 mounted on the far left side of the panel. Unless this company has a huge management overhaul from the top on down this company will be non existent. Arriving at the FBO there, the crew were shocked to find the owner and his colleague outside the FBO, on the ramp, unsupervised, waiting for the aircraft to arrive. Safety is Avantairs top priority. Today's grounding is the 4th time in 2 weeks they have grounded the fleet, but the previous times they had slowly returned airplanes to service. 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